คำถามที่ได้รับคำตอบแล้ว

Tomar e tirar

What is the difference between "tomar" and "tirar"

Eu vou tirar uma soneca.

Porque nao "eu vou tomar uma soneca" au "eu vou ter uma soneca".

Obrigada!
เพื่อเรียนภาษา: โปรตุเกส
ภาษาที่คุณใช้: อังกฤษ
124 view(s) since Oct 21, 2009
Is this question related to language learning?
(3) (0)

คำตอบ (5)

เรียงลำดับโดย
Thiago Gualdi V.
คำตอบที่ดีที่สุดเลือกโดยผู้ถาม

This one is not very easy to answer, since I don't know the origins of the expressions, but let's try.

1. We do say "(Eu) vou ter uma soneca." and similar.
2. "Tirar" is an active verb.
3. "Tomar", in this sense, however, acts like a not purely active, nor purely passive verb - it's called by some simply as neutral verb. We could say it's a middle voice verb.

So, we use "tirar" for expressions such as "tirar uma soneca" just like we say "dormir". You make the action of "dormir", and don't suffer it from someone or something.

On the other hand, we say "tomar" for expressions such as "tomar vergonha na cara", " tomar banho" etc. You make the action, sometimes syntactically and semantically, other times just syntactically, and suffer it from something or someone else.

e.g.
"(Eu) vou tirar uma soneca." (I'm going to take a nap.)
I am the grammatical subject and an agent too.
I will move to the 'soneca' and will make actions in order to execute it.
AND
The couch/bed/whatever won't execute something on me.
Therefore, the couch/bed/whatever isn't an agent too.

"(Eu) vou tomar um banho." (I'm going to take a shower/bathe.)
I am the grammatical subject and an agent too.
I will move to the 'banho' and will make actions in order to execute it.
BUT
The shower/bath will bathe me.
Therefore, the shower/bath is an agent too.

This isn't an universal pattern, by the way, but the majority and more.
In English, you make things easier using 'take' for both senses.
I hope I could be clear enough and help you. =]

Thiago Gualdi V. ตอบเมื่อ 1 เดือน
2
Thiago Gualdi V.
Since João refutes at least some of my statements, I'll counter-argue.

1. "Tomar café" doesn't seem to apply. "Tomar", here, means "drink". So, you are drinking a coffee (eating breakfast?), and not "taking a breakfast".

2. "Ter" is used. Check this example:
"(Eu) vou ter aquele sono gostoso agora." (I'll have that pleasant sleep now.)
This is a common sentence where I live. On the other hand, it's uncommon to say:
"(Eu) vou tirar aquele sono gostoso agora." (I'll take that pleasant sleep now.)

It's just a matter of preference. Some people are used to say X, just X, and like it. Other, to say Y, just Y, and like it. Some people say both X and Y. Some even say Z. The diversity is what makes Portuguese rich and that's how those expressions were born.

I'm trying to show that "tomar" and "tirar" aren't interchangeable mostly not just due to a matter of preference or authoritarian praxis, but because they present different voices.
Like I said earlier, you could replace "tirar (algo)" for a shorter active verb.
Tirar um cochilo = Cochilar
(Take a nap = To nap)
Tirar uma música do violão = Tocar violão
(Take a music from the guitar = Play guitar)

But if you want to replace "tomar (algo)", probably you would use a reflexive verb or a passive voice verb.
Tomar um banho = Banhar-se
(Take a bath = To bathe yourself)
Tomar um golpe = Ser golpeado
(Take a hit = Be hitted)
Tomar vergonha na cara = Envergonhar-se
(Take shame on the face = To ashame yourself) [That is, to turn yourself into the state of feeling shame]

And, yes, I believe all have logic. But you have to go deep enough to find it.

Thiago Gualdi V. ตอบเมื่อ 1 เดือน แฟลก (Flag)

1
Harry
It´s as difficult as take, get, keep is for us, IT MEANS MANY THINGS

TOMAR = to drink something, water, milk, soda... eu vou TOMAR agua, leite, soda
to take a bath Eu vou tomar um banho
to catch or to hold something in your hand without permision
to catch a bus....

TIRAR: to take off something, to do something disappear question, sleep, reason...
in fact when you are going TIRAR UMA SONECA you do the sleep disappear.
when somebody pick up something of some place
I hope it help you

Harry ตอบเมื่อ 1 เดือน แฟลก (Flag)

1
Sergio-Brasil
Ola Kayleigh
exemplos
tomar: vou tomar esta borracha dela
voce pode tomar conta de meu filho
quero tomar um suco
vou tomar um banho
presente-tomar
passado-tomou
futuro-tomarei
Tirar- vou tirar minha filha daquela escola
vou tirar o lapis de dentro da caixa
vou tirar um cochilo
quem tirou meu livro de cima da mesa
vou tirar nota boa este ano
presente-tirar
passado-tirou-tirei
futuro-tirarei
etc....

Sergio-Brasil ตอบเมื่อ 1 เดือน แฟลก (Flag)

1
"Anderson"
take a shower ,take a drink. :) tomar alguma coisa.

"Anderson" ตอบเมื่อ 29 วัน แฟลก (Flag)

-2
Kayleigh
Kayleigh

ผู้ฝึกสอน
จาก สหราชอาณาจักร

Share this page

Share this page with friends on:

Bookmark and Share

ตอบคำถาม