Luca
What you mean with "learn a language"?

Hello everybody,

I was reading an "inspiring" blog named "fluent in 3 months" owned by Benny, a polyglot irish guy. I think a lot of people here know him.

I was reading this blog post: http://www.fluentin3months.com/one-year/ "how I learned 5 languages in 1 year".

When I started to read this I tought "that is amazing! Five languages in just 1 year!". Then I red this part:


I can now speak all five of these languages with varying degrees of fluency:

German (B2)

Spanish (A1)

French (A2)

Chinese (B2)

Czech (A2)


and I started to think about what the people mean with "learn a language" or even "speak a language". Does the level A2 or A1 really gives you the title of "language speaker"? That sounds quite strange to me.

By my side, in order to know a foreign language you have to have prooven skills in Listening, Speaking and Reading. The levels A1 and A2 and even B2 don't give you such knowledge. With the level  A2 you don't even completely know the whole grammar.

So, for that reasong when I talk about my language skills I say:

- Italian: mothertongue

- spanish: level C2, I say I SPEAK spanish, as I have a complete knowledge of the language. I lived in Spain, I have no trouble in any situation.

- English: level B2, I say I KNOW english, but I can't say I am an english speaker, because my knowledge lacks in some point, I have problem with the american accent, I make mistakes and so on.

- French: level B1, I say I BARELY KNOW french, because I certainly am able to speak about any topic (french is close enough to italian to be a comfortable language even if your dictionary is not complete) but I make a lot of errors.

- Persian: level B1, I say that is the language I am learning, nothing more.

So, altough in Chinese and German the author did it brilliant, on the other 3 languages it's a waste of time.

What do you think?



2016年11月8日 12:32
コメント · 20
3
It is really difficult and I never know what to say about my language knowledge, exactly because people have so different ideas about it. So if I say to you that I speak Italian you will expect C2 level + being able to recite a grammar book and if I say to Benny Lewis... well, you got the idea. But I would try to take the middle ground and be realistic, and say I can speak a language if I can express everything I want and my mistakes don't prevent me from being understood. This happens around B2/C1. Oh, by the way, I'm also not sure that I am able to evaluate my language knowledge on CEFR scale accurately.
2016年11月8日
2
I can't remember correctly where I have read this opinion (I think in the book "How to Learn Any Language" by Farber Barry), but it was something like "I will never say I speak another language except my mother tongue . I just say I'm learning". I agree with the author and same with you. A reason was that I have never been able to speak a language that I have no nevousnese of using it. Another reason was, that I think, one people can never understand a language as well as a native speaker. So for me, it's a shame to say "I speak a  language, that I'm just in A-Level" . But if someone says: "I can speak a little bit"  in the language, they're learning, I think it's ok.
2016年11月8日
1
It is not important for most of the people to see someone who is marvelous in language learning to speak multitple languages. Nothing more important than I can communicate fluently with my target language in 4 skills by learning. In terms of levels set by some institutions, that is just a criteria to sort out.
2016年11月9日
1

I deem that sincerity should prompt the people that make such claims (I speak 50 languages and so on) to clear all things up and share the details of their knowledge. Thus, a supposed polyglot should say e.g. I speak 10 languages - 2 of them fluently (almost native-like), 4 of them on the "conversative" level (B1-B2) and using these 2 tongues that I know not so well yet I'm able to order a meal, or ask for directions.

I'd like to highlight that I respect Benny Lewis a lot because he urges people to speak up and not being afraid of making mistakes. On the other hand, such statements may wrongly induce some people to think that being jack-of-all 20 languages is really possible. It is not (in most cases, of course. There are prodigies in this world, no doubt.)

Experienced translators and linguists are telling me constantly (Faculty of Linguistics) that mastering even 2 languages on the top-notch skill level is very hard and time-consuming. You can chat and read in another twelve but there is a huge difference between such chatting/passive skills and the true C2 mastery. 

In the good days of yore the stress was put on extensive study and memorisation of grammar rules (Greek, Latin etc.). Nowadays, in general, the pendulum has gone to the other side. There is a strong communicative approach in language learning, so for some people B1 skills are satisfactory and sufficient. I would add that true mastery is born as the child of these two approaches.

To sum up, it's completely ok with me when someone says that speaks, let's say, 10 languages (If you can pass a concise message in the particular language you can say you speak it, I suppose).  Nevertheless, I do appreciate some clarification on this topic.

This is a very important thread, many people may decide to focus more on the languages that are of the utmost importance to them after reading the comments above(It's hard for us, language lovers, I know :)).

2016年11月8日
1
It is not necessarily a waste of time, maybe she is in Spain and hungry. But I agree it is not fair to say that she has learned five languages. Although, when you think of it, she did honestly say what her level was.
2016年11月8日
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Luca
語学スキル
カタルーニャ語, 英語, フランス語, イタリア語, ペルシア語 (ファールシー語), ポルトガル語, スペイン語
言語学習
カタルーニャ語, 英語, フランス語, ペルシア語 (ファールシー語), ポルトガル語, スペイン語