Andrew
....商女.... I am exercising my word style and rereading this poem. The last line makes me memorize another famous one:商女不知亡国恨,隔岸犹唱后庭花。 I think people nowadays put too much blame upon them. They did care nothing on the lost of the land and even the ruin of their country. But think it over contrarily, what compelled them to be degraded in the previous period of the prosperity and what brought them misery and ignorance in the former governance? To them, this coutry had not been worth crying any more since a long time ago. After losing people's faith, how can authorities attribute responsibility to these women for the falling? 商女=烟花女子=风尘女子, how to express the meaning? I don't regard Prostitute proper for this word.
2011年9月30日 17:02
訂正 · 7

....商女.... Songstress 1

I am exercising my word style was practising my calligraphy.  After  and rereading,  the last line of this lyrical poem reminded me of a famous poem2 ,  The last line makes me memorize another famous one:

"Songstress know not of sorrows of a kingdom lost,

Still singing, "Courtyard Flowers" 1 on the other bank" (商女不知亡国恨,隔岸犹唱后庭花).

I think People nowadays put place too much blame upon these songstresses  them. They believe that they are not capable of understanding the loss and ruination of their country.  On the contrary I believe they knew much more.  Why not sing over the follies of the previous regimes.  If they were so good, why did they not here today?  Why put the blame of these "hapless" creatures? 3

did care nothing on the lost of the land and even the ruin of their country. But think it over contrarily, what compelled them to be degraded in the previous period of the prosperity and what brought them misery and ignorance in the former governance? To them, this coutry had not been worth crying any more since a long time ago. After losing people's faith, how can authorities attribute responsibility to these women for the falling?

商女=烟花女子=风尘女子, How to express the this meaning? I don't regard prostitute is the rightproper for this word. 1

Andrew, well done!  You thoroughly me my mind go through a strenuous gymnastics routine today.  At the same time, alerted me to something new.  Thanks.  By looking at what you wrote in the photo, I believe that if you start learning to translate from them, your understanding of the English language will improve even greater.  It will help you think in the English mode.  Of course, this does not help you in oral communication.

Here's a link I found.  A grand master from Hong Kong.  Learn from him!  His formidable Chinese and English will greatly aid you.

<a href="http://chinesepoemsinenglish.blogspot.com/2009/06/du-mu-moored-on-river-qinhuai.html">http://chinesepoemsinenglish.blogspot.com/2009/06/du-mu-moored-on-river-qinhuai.html</a>;

1.  商, Shang has two literal meanings.  The Shang Dynasty or buisness.  Adding the character for woman, 女 can mean two things, "Woman of Shang" or "buisness woman" and even a euphemism for prostitute!  However, one has to research into the poem to see what the term actually stood for.  This is a late Tang Dynasty poem written by Tu Mu.  The lady in question was actually a song girl.  One who plies their trade in singing.  Unlike today's pop stars etc, these girls are usually found in brothels for the merriment of the guests.  Some sell their songs but not their bodies (賣歌不賣身).  However the majority was not that high principled.  Here I will take issues.  I considered a wife, a prostitute.  After all she sold her life just to a single man, bearing fruits of his loins and slave for him for a better life.  So it's no difference to me. 

2.  For a piece of good writing, either you incorporate it in the writing or give it a footnote.  Remember your article is read by people all over the world and has no inkling of what you are talking at.

杜牧: 泊秦淮 Du Mu: Mooring At the Chin Huai River.

烟籠寒水月籠沙, Mists covering the cold waters, moonlight covering the sand,

夜泊秦淮近酒家. Mooring one night at Chin Huai River, a wine shop near.

商女不知亡國恨, Song girl know not of sorrows of a kingdom lost.

隔江猶唱後庭花. Still singing, "Courtyard Flowers" 1 on the other bank.

3.  Frankly speaking, I don't really know what you are saying.  Just a gist here and there.  So this is my guess.  If you really want an accurate correction, write in Chinese.

1.   Short for "Jade Tree Courtyard Flowers", 玉樹後庭花.  A song from 陳後主's time.  Actually the poem was not alluding to that period but to the current regime of the late Tang Dynasty, that it too will follow the path of the Later Chen Dynasty when it was destroyed by the Sui Dynasty because the last ruler treated the adminstration of the country as some kind of a play in merriment and gaiety.

2011年9月30日

“卖艺不卖身”。据我所知,中国古代有身价的青楼女子,尤其花魁,多多少少似乎都要学习琴棋书画之类的“艺”。有商女“献唱”,自然是有客人“点唱”,诗句当然暗讽了统治者的醉生梦死。

可我想表达的是,说商女不知亡国之恨不太合适。烟花之地的女子大多身世悲惨,使他们沦落风尘的正是前朝残酷的政权。对她们来说,国家亡与不亡,又有何值得留念的呢。

2011年10月1日
字写得很漂亮,:D
2011年10月1日
I appreciate your handwriting very much! Wish I can write so beautifully!
2011年9月30日
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