Richard
Por e para estão me deixando louco! Several Brazilians corrected the following sentence in my notebook, but I don't understand why 'para' and not 'por' is used in this context: Feijoada é um guisado para a alma. (I wrote 'pela alma'). Obrigado.
Nov 27, 2014 6:02 PM
Answers · 11
Point 1: The original version of the prhase was "it is a stew for the SOUL". So the proper translation is "Feijoada é um guisado para a alma". (please see the point 3, the prhase "Feijoada é um guisado pela alma" is not grammatically wrong but the meaning is totally different) Point 2: - The preposition 'PARA', depending of the context it can be translated as "To", "In order to", "forward", "for". It is used to indicate the final destiny, recipient, deadline and to indicate goals. - The preposition 'POR', depending of the context it can be translated as "By", "Through", "For". It is used to indicate the duration of a period, the way used to reach the final destiny, in passive voice sentences indicating the doer (the active person) of an action. - 'PELA' is the contraction of 'POR + A'. Point 3: Considering the definitions of 'POR' and 'PARA' and that "FOR" is a mutual translation for both, if you say: - "Feijoada é um guisado para a alma" the idea is that the feijoada is made for the soul. So, I think is the idea of the original prhase in English. - "Feijoada é um guisado pela alma" (POR+A): you are giving the idea that the essence of feijoada is being a stew (well, at least a poetic way to say this, is not a common usage). And I think the English prhase for the use of "PELA" in this context would be "Feijoada is a stew by its SOUL" ------------- P.S.: I want to take this opportunity and apologize, because as your original prhase was not grammatically incorrect, I did not notice the original translation.
November 27, 2014
I think it's so difficult to answer your question Richard. I'd say it's just a question of use. It happens in English either. Brazilians generally have problem with this same aspect in relation to English prepositions. For example: a) I bought a gift to Marie. - or - b) I bought a gift for Marie. (You say "I bought a gift FOR Marie, because it's a question of use). The better way to learn this is KEEPING IN TOUCH with the foreign language you are learning. Another problem I had with preposition had to do with the use of "depending". I used to put "of" after depending, but little by little I realized the correct way is using "on" (and sometimes upon). For example: The cooking time depends ON the size of the potato. (instead of OF) So, I really recommend you not to memorize if you should use "for" or "para". However, when those words appeared in a news, magazine, blog and so on, try to pay attention in the CONTEXT they are used. This would be more effective than memorizing grammar rules. Also, I suggest you take a look at this link about collocation, maybe it helps you: https://www.englishclub.com/vocabulary/collocations.htm
November 28, 2014
it's hard !! same doubt that brazilians have with "to" and "for". I put a video in english from youtube ,maybe help you, http://braziliangringo.com/por-para-in-portuguese/
November 27, 2014
well, if the original sentence was "stew for the soul", meaning "the stew is specially prepared to be tasted by the soul", then the correct portuguese form is definitely "para a alma". "Pela alma" would mean something like "for its sake" (close, but not the same meaning). Also we can use "pela" for imprecise locations - around the soul, across the soul or even through the soul: "Walk around the soul of Brazil"
November 29, 2014
PART 2 (of 2) "Para a alma" means "to the soul". "Pela alma" means "through the soul". - Sigo pelo caminho que me indicaram. (I follow the path that's been indicated to me) - Sigo para o caminho que me indicaram. (I walk towards the path that's been indicated to me) - Já me desculpei para você. (You don't need to tell them you're sorry, I've already apologized) - Já me desculpei por você. (You should be sorry. I've apologized in your name for what you've done, but you should have been the one doing it) The problem is, there are endless ways to build new ways of saying it, so it's better to grasp the initial meaning (the nuance) in Portuguese. What all sentences with "para" have in common is that they can mean "toward", or "to", or a neutral way of calling attention to an action you performed; and "por" means "through", "by", or a way of emphasizing the person who receives the action of what you've done (when it means "in someone's stead"). The translation? That's a case-by-case basis. Sometimes you use the same preposition in English; sometimes you use a different one; sometimes you don't use any preposition at all (see examples above).
November 29, 2014
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Richard
Language Skills
English, Portuguese
Learning Language
Portuguese