Ray 安銳光
The use of 次 and 遍 In English, they can loosely be translated to "times". When is it appropriate to use these two characters?
Oct 7, 2008 4:56 PM
Answers · 5
“遍”强调的是某一事件或某一动作整个过程的完整的重复性。 "bian" tends to express the complete repetition for a whole process of a certain event or action. “次”强调的是在序列里的位置以及出现的频率。 "ci" tends to show the position in the queue or the frequence of appearance. 在一般不严格的情况下,两者差别不是很大,可以通用。 if it's not strict by request, they can be used as the same for they have just little difference.
October 8, 2008
Hi, Ray, Most of the time, they can be interchangeable. But for careful users, of course there's still a nuance between them. One of the primary meanings of 次 is “next”. For example, 次日 means “next day”. Very often, you use the word “next” while you're checking a queue of things/people one by one; it's like you're counting. Therefore, we extend the meaning of “next” into that of “one instance of ” and use it as a counter word. Accordingly, its connotation is plainly about the number. The original meaning of 遍 is “all over (a place)”. For example, 遍地 means “all over the ground/floor”. When you spread/distribute something all over a place, it's like you've got the job done, or you've completed something. Therefore, when used as a counter word, it has the connotation of “being completed” or “being though the whole process”. So, when you didn't catch what someone just said and would like him/her to say that again, you can either say 請再說一次 or 請再說一遍. The former is just like “Please say that one more time”, plain and simple. However, the latter is more like “Please say that all over again”, which suggests that I really don't want to miss a thing in what you said. With “I've read this book five times”, it's either 這書我已經看過五次了 or 這書我已經看過五遍了. Personally, I'll use the latter because it conveys the notion of being though the whole book while the former simply tells you the number. What SIYI said is very good too. It doesn't take long to go from one to another when we count; therefore 次, but it takes longer when we need to complete something; therefore 遍.
October 7, 2008
as far as my understanding goes... i think wufei has the most accurate explanation. loosely, those two words are about the same. but the important thing to note for 遍 is that it expresses an almost exact repeated action, therefore focuses in on the actual action itself. whereas 次 puts emphasis on the actual number of times something was done and also does not specify whether the action was necessarily identically performed and is thus more general in scope.
October 14, 2008
次:1.顺序(order),“依次”means one by one. 2.第二(the second),“次子”the second son. 3.质量不好的(the quality is not good),“次品”defective products. 4.作量词(measure word),here it means times≈“遍” 当 “次”≈“遍”时,个人总结区别如下(the differences): 次 强调的是短暂的点,而 遍 更注重 过程。例如:我给你说过多少次(遍),不要......,你偏不听,你想让我重复多少遍(次)呀。当然这里换一下也可以,不过我可以给你推敲一下,你就知道哪种好了。“说过多少次”,强调的是说的遍数之多,而具体说的内容(也就是后面的“不要....”)被压缩了,因为后面又陈述了;“让我重复多少遍”这里就强调所讲内容了,因为“遍”有all over,之意,眼外之意是“我还得从头到尾的说....”有点像英语里"i had gone"“i had been there”的感觉。 他们的区别在一个词上就可以区分了,“有一次”,你不能说“有一遍” 如果上面的解释麻烦的话,就如楼上的例子“这本书我看过五次了”与“这本书我看过五遍了”前者强调看过五次,不一定从头到尾的看,或许五次只看了五页,或许五行,或许看的同一句话;后者则强调“从头到尾的看了”
October 8, 2008
i think people use 次 to discribe somethings happend in a short time, for example : The ball has jumped twice. 球跳了两次。but not 两遍。 but we use 遍 to discribe the things ,that we need time to do . like: i have read that book twice. 我读了这本书两遍。 anyway in spoken language , i think both are ok...
October 7, 2008
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Ray 安銳光
Language Skills
Chinese (Mandarin), English, Filipino (Tagalog), Indonesian, Korean, Thai
Learning Language
Chinese (Mandarin), Indonesian, Korean, Thai