Valeria
What does "se" refer to? Hi all. Could someone explain me, please, to what "SE" refers in the following sentence: "Sira se da cuenta de que las joyas de la familia de su padre has desaparecido: Ramiro SE las ha robado". Is there actually a reflexive verb "robarse" (I have always thought it should be "robar")? And how is it different then from "robar"? Or does "se" refer to something else? Thanks.
Oct 16, 2018 8:08 PM
Answers · 6
Lees el Tiempo entre Costuras? Me gusta este libro. ´Robar´no es reflexivo. 'Se' en la oración es el pronombre de objeto indirecto. Se usa así cuando hay una combinación de objetos indirectos y directos en la oración, y el objeto indirecto se refiere a la tercera persona (singular o plural). Ramiro ha robado las joyas a ella (Sira). Joyas = objeto directo (las) Ella = objeto indirecto (le) Cuando el pronombre de objeto directo es 'lo/la/los/las' y el pronombre de objeto indirecto es 'le' o 'les' en la misma oración, se usa 'se' en lugar de le/les. Funciona así porque es muy dificil decir algo como 'le las ha robado.' Suena muy mal.
October 16, 2018
"¡Hola, Valeria!" If I may join in, I'd say here we have a "se" which replaces "le", an indirect object (IO) pronoun. In the sentence you gave, we use "se" to avoid having *"le las"---where "l" is repeated, which would not sound good to us Spanish speakers! :) So, to explain that in more detail, let's start with the full sentence, with no object pronouns: (1) "Ramiro ha robado las joyas a Sira." Now, let's replace only the direct object (DO), "las joyas", with its corresponding pronoun, "LAS": (2) "Ramiro LAS ha robado a Sira." Next, let's also replace the indirect object (IO), "a Sira", with its corresponding pronoun, "LE": (3) "Ramiro *LE LAS ha robado." --> "LE" + "LA" are combined here, but "le la" doesn't sound good... Therefore, we simply replace "LE", in (3), with "SE". We get sentence 4 below (which is the sentence you gave us!): (4) "Ramiro SE LAS ha robado." So, in summary, "SE" in (4) is a "variant" or alternate word for "le". As you will gather, "se" is not a reflexive pronoun here. In fact, "se" is used in many different ways in Spanish---which I'd say makes this little word one of the most difficult in Spanish! :) I hope that helps! Alfonso
October 17, 2018
Genial, El tiempo entre costuras. Muy buen libro a mi parecer
October 17, 2018
There many other uses of SE apart from the reflexive form. I have many materials I normally share with my students.
October 17, 2018
Hi, actually, the verb ROBARSE exists, and its difference with the verb ROBAR is a matter of pragmatism. In America Latina, we normally prefer to use the verb ROBARSE when there is not an indirect complement or when we want to express the unknowledment of who the real actor of the action was; this is to say that we prefer to say sentences like: -Él se robó las joyas (you could also say ÉL ROBO LAS JOYAS with the same meaning) - se robaron las computadoras (SE in this case means SOMEBODY)
October 17, 2018
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Valeria
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German, Spanish