italki - Level C2+ - What is full proficiency and how achieve it? I scrolled through the profiles of English

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Miriam

Level C2+ - What is full proficiency and how achieve it?

I scrolled through the profiles of English teachers and realised that hardly any of them took the OOPT. Or maybe they chose to hide their scores? When you take the OOPT you can decide between three things:

<ol><li>Display your results.</li><li>Show that you took it but hide the results.</li><li>Hide the fact that you took it in the first place.</li></ol>

Some teachers only display the OOPT symbol but without their score which makes me think that they might have had an embarrassing result. But then it might be better to also hide the OOPT symbol because it makes you wonder. Some teachers (who claim to be native English speakers) have results lower than C2 which also makes me wonder why they display that because it's hardly good marketing. Don't get me wrong. I'm aware that the CEFR levels don't measure native language competency and that someone who is illiterate or uneducated and therefore even wouldn't get a B2 score in a language exam can still be a native speaker and also can be helpful as tutor or language exchange partner depending on one's goals. Also, even an educated native speaker might not get high scores in a language exam as the things that are tested there are different to everyday use of a language and one should also be familiar with the testing design in order to get good results. But, bear with me here. I do think that someone who is a professional teacher of their own native tongue and also offers help in exam preparation should be able to get a high score in a language exam. How else can they really help their students?

The OOPT is, of course, not a real language proficiency exam but just a quick placement test and for proficient non-native English speakers it's not very hard to score C2, for which you need 100 to 120 points. It consists of two parts: 1. Usage of English 2. Listening. If you score C2, the badge in your italki profile shows "C2 proficient". The interesting thing is that there is also a level C2+. Then the badge shows "C2+ Advanced (native)". So far I only came across three teachers who have this score. One has the perfect score with 120 points, the other two with 119 points. I'm wondering where C2+ actually starts in the OOPT. I found one teacher who had 117 points but only the C2 badge. And I found one teacher who claims to be able to teach all levels up until C2+ (but they only displayed the OOPT badge without results).

Maybe you'll think that the level C2+ doesn't exist and was just made up for this badge but in fact it is discussed in academic papers and also tested in some language exams. Take the Cambridge Certificate of Proficience (CPE) for example: <a href="https://www.cambridgeenglish.org/exams-and-tests/proficiency/results/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.cambridgeenglish.org/exams-and-tests/proficiency/results/</a>;. Grade A (220 to 230 points) actually exceeds the C2 level.

I also found this interesting paper: <a href="https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/tel-01395794/file/A_short_Presentation_of_C1_and_C2_specif.pdf" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/tel-01395794/file/A_short_Presentation_of_C1_and_C2_specif.pdf</a>;

"[...] it is useful to contemplate the specification of a C2+ level that will pertain to the most advanced social functions where the French language can, at one and the same time, an object of study and a relational vector (translator, interpreter, FFL specialist , writer of specialized essays in French, diplomat serving in our country, writer, etc.), but we do not deem it convenient to propose a level D. [...] What distinguishes the C levels from the B levels is a greater awareness of sociolinguistic and socio-cultural phenomena. [...] Nevertheless, while these sociolinguistic and socio-cultural phenomena are important, knowledge and pragmatic competence pertaining to the functions (argumentative, jussive, conversational, etc.), to verbal notions and forms (grammar, lexis, etc.) have been identified which differentiate level C from the preceding levels and enable us to justify the gap between C1, C2 and C2+."

What is your stance on that? How would you describe the difference between C2 and C2+?

Do you think that a professional teacher who is a native speaker and studied their native language at university level, should be able to score C2+ in a language proficiency exam?

Is it possible for non-native speakers to reach this kind of level? Have you reached C2+ in one of your target languages and how did you do it?

If a teacher were to help a student to get from C2 to C2+, what and how would they teach?

Edit: I have a typo in the title. Of course it should be „how to achieve it“.

21 aug. 2020 11:56

Opmerkingen · 8

I took the OOPT. Before my test, I thought I was a C1. After the test, I got a B2. If you prepare for the test, you can get a C2. The reason I failed is that I'm used to the American accent and the test has parts with Britsh Accent and I couldn't understand the question. Taking the test is important for students to find out their weaknesses and work that part of their learning.

Regarding a teacher, I prefer a native speaker, but it doesn't mean that only because you are a native you will be a good teacher. I'm not sure if I can teach my language to other people, because it requires some skills that can't be learned at college.

21 augustus 2020

The kind of grammar taught to native speakers in university is different from that taught to non-native speakers. I took grammar and editing courses as part of my university program, and what we learnt about was usage of punctuation marks and common problem areas for native speakers, such as when to use a comma, the difference between the em-dash and en-dash, that/which, who/whom, restrictive and non-restrictive relative clauses. This is the kind of stuff that’s useful for native speakers looking to be professional writers and editors. It’s very advanced and assumes a lot of prior knowledge. For example, we didn’t learn anything about tenses or inflections.

When I studied for my teaching certificate, I realized that there were a lot of things in English grammar that I had intuitive knowledge but little conscious knowledge of. For example, I knew when a tense sounded right, but I wouldn’t have been able to explain it to you.

My guess is that if professional native speakers take a proficiency test, they’ll score high on questions that target advanced topics but struggle with less advanced topics. This can give a weird result where the score averages out to be around C1 or B2. Non-native speakers learn each level consciously before moving on to the next level. Native speakers don’t need that, so there’s a large gap in conscious knowledge.

The problem with language proficiency tests is that they tend to test for discrete grammar points, not communicative competence. Sometimes what’s correct and what sounds natural are different (or at least what sounds natural has more leeway), and it can seem like the test doesn’t even care about what sounds natural. In one test that I took, there was a question that was testing the difference between which/what. It was a multiple choice question and there were two answers that sounded natural, but I knew which one to choose because I knew what the question was asking for.

23 augustus 2020

In my first month as a teacher, I took the OOPT exam thinking it would help attract students.

I only got a C2 which surprised me slightly since I'm a native speaker, with a good vocabulary, and a good mastery of grammar, and none of the questions seemed difficult. Later, I noticed that people who displayed C2+ results were all British. So, I assume that I missed a few questions due to American/British differences.

I have met one outstanding non-native professional English-French translator (who gave me conversational French lessons for two years). She was "perfectly bilingual" and I assume she would have achieved a C2. Given that her English was Canadian English and not British English, I assume she would not have gotten a C2+.

I don't have a clear idea of how to teach someone to achieve a C2+.

23 augustus 2020

Is it possible for non-native speakers to reach this kind of level?

Nowadays it is quite possible to achieve C2+ for non-native speakers because of modern means of communication, education and travel.

It is very important for future editors of school books and curriculum creators. In Poland we still have mistakes in student’s books, unfortunately.

During spring lockdown in Poland state television has sought to step into the educational gap by broadcasting special lessons presented by real teachers.

The series of classes called “Szkoła z TVP” (“School with TVP”) had been presenting 25-minute lessons.

Yet viewers quickly pointed out that many of the lessons, which are produced in cooperation with the education ministry, contained mistakes. Visual material used in the English classes, for example, contained misspelled words. One lesson began with a graphic saying “lerning [sic] English might be great”.

23 augustus 2020