Amirreza
Community-Tutor
Can any one explain to me the paragraphs that I marked with '+,**' Lyons offers a definition of what he calls a 'real' speech community: 'all the people who use a given language'. However, that merely shifts the issue to making the definition of a language also the definition of a speech community. It is really quite easy to demonstrate that a speech community is not coterminous with a language: +(While the English langauge is spoken in many places throughout the world, we must certainly recognize that it is also spoken in a wide variety of ways, in speech communities that are almost entirely isolated from one another, for example, in South Africa, in New Zealand, and among various expatriates in China. We must ask ourselves in what sense does this modern lingua franca produce a speech community that might be of interest to us, that is, ask what else is shared other than the very language itself. **Furthermore, if speech communities are defined solely by their linguistic characteristics, we must acknowledge the inherent circularity of any such definition in that langauge itself is a communal possession**. Speakers do use linguistic characteristics to achieve group identity with, and group differention from, other speakers, but they use other characteristics as well: social, cultural, etc. Our search must be for criteria other than, or at least in addition to linguistic criteria if we are to gain a useful understanding of 'speech community '.+) 1)Does it mean that speech community is coterminous with language? If not, why this paragraph that I marked with + means? 2)Also, I can't understand the reason why we can't define speech communities based on their linguistic characteristics. I can't understand the explanation that it gives in the last paragraph.
30. März 2020 07:53
Antworten · 8
1
1) If a real 'speech community' is everyone that uses the same language, it means that the definition of 'language' is the same as 'speech community' which cannot be true. For example many people speak English but you cannot say they are the same speech community. 2) We can't use linguistic characteristics as the only way to understand a speech community. Social, cultural etc characteristics play a part in creating groups. It is not just the linguistic part that counts
1. April 2020
)Does it mean that speech community is coterminous with language? If not, why this paragraph that I marked with + means? 2)Also, I can't understand the reason why we can't define speech communities based on their linguistic characteristics. I can't understand the explanation that it gives in the last paragraph. I think the question is the wrong one, sorry. It appears that you want to know whether the term "speech group" is the same a "people who use some particular language". This is not my area, but it seems this is the point the piece is making, that one should be aware of how this works, instead of finding a perfect definition. Let's define a group: usrs of italki who speak English sometimes but never, ever, ever use the pseudo-word "wanna". We've defined a group. If we study that group we will find that no one uses wanna. So our definition, sampling, and the results we get are circular. However you define the group, by whatever rules, you create the results you will get. So are speech groups identical to uses of a particular style of language, usually because that's the group we chose to study. To those of us who work in technology this is another example of arts people arguing endlessly and being pleased with the sound of their own voices over trivia. We understand sampling bias in passing and get on with the actual job at hand. Enjoy. Not something that I will ever be able to partake in. Define your groups, understand that the definition of the study group biases your sampling and results. Wow your version is way longer to say the same thing. :) Chomskey's theoretical work and implications for language in general, computer science and learning were way more interesting and fruitful.
1. April 2020
In a certain way coterminous means "the same", since a language defines a speech community according to him. In any case I've looked up in internet and between the synonyms you have "coexistent" and "coincident" and as a definition you have "having the same or coincident boundaries": Exemple A voting district coterminous with the city. Than, a language defines indeed a speech community, but it is not the only element that defines it. That means that a speech community is maybe defined in a 30% from the language, in another 30% from the community culture and so on.
1. April 2020
Thank you again, so can I say the word "coterminous" is synonymous with "same " in this context? if not, what synonym would you give here? also, you said that 'language defines a speech community'. is in't it the same as what Lyons said in this passage? if not, can you explain it a little further.
1. April 2020
About the word coterminous: yes, I've understood it in that way. For the second question I am not sure: as far as I understood, he says "if speech communities are defined solely by their linguistic characteristics" but they are not. Here we speak about English and English cannot be used alone to define a speech community because it is a communal possession to different speech communities. So the language defines a speech community, but a speech community is not defined solely by a language. There are other things such as culture etc. So English is a communal language and therefore we have to aknowledge that a language alone can't define a speech community, otherwise it would be a circular idea (a language defines a speech community, a speech community is defined by a language).
1. April 2020
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