Below are some of my experiences trying to advance through the intermediate stages of my first foreign language. I'm currently at a B1 intermediate level of Spanish. My progress was rapid through A1-A2 and I advanced to B1 while taking an immersion program last January. Since returning, I have sat in on a college Spanish class 1-2 times per week and practiced about 30min. a day. I feel like this has been enough to merely maintain my B1 level (I have regressed in some areas and advanced in others). Next month, I will begin a 5 week program in Peru.
I have always thought that "I just don't get" foreign languages. For the past thirty years, I have attempted to learn Spanish, yet never advanced through an A2 level. I would always lose my motivation/interest after a couple months.
This is the furthest I have progressed and I feel like I am on the cusp of breaking into the B2 level. Learning a language beyond memorizing common tourist words is a fascinating process to me. I have learned a lot about my mind and learning styles. At times, the foreign language has taken me into an almost meditative or "trippy" mindspace.
Here are a few things I've learned at the intermediate stage:
1) If this is your first foreign language, learn how you learn. Be aware of your learning process. Get curious. I read about so many different foreign learning strategies. Some where incredibly helpful and changed my perspective on language and communication. Other strategies seemed to cause me more harm than good. There is general advice that seems applicable to everyone. There is also advice that resonated well with me, but probably not other people. And there are things I've learned about myself that I have not read anywhere.
2) My recent slow progress at the B1 stage is similar as my learning to ski process. I first tried skiing back in 1988: the skiis were long and straight back then and it was MUCH more difficult to learn to ski. I was frustrated that I couldn't ski with my friends. They were going on ski trips and skiing regular slopes, while I was on the "bunny hill". Skiing just wasn't fun and I was about to quit, yet then I discovered "snow plowing". You can slow yourself down by forming a "V" with your skis. I made rapid "progress" and was soon skiing on the regular slopes with my friends. Within a year, I was at an intermediate level, skiing blue slopes. And I remained there for 4 years of skiing. . . One winter, my parents hired a videographer to film our family while skiing. As soon as I watch myself ski, I knew something wasn't right. I didn't look fluid. Something was wrong with the position of my skiis and the shifting of my body weight. Then I realized: for years I had been trying to improve the original way I learned: "snow plowing". This method allowed me to make rapid progress through the beginner stage and I probably would have quit skiing without it. Yet, the technique is fundamentally flawed and inhibits me from reaching advanced stages. I realized I had to open myself up to a whole new way skiing to progress further. I watched lots of instructional videos and practiced. Breaking old habits was very difficult, yet I began to get a "feel" for the key: rather than forcing ski position to change direction, I began shifting my body weight and using gravity as my friend.
3) For language learning, "translating" is like "snow plowing". It allowed me rapid progress through beginner stages and I don't think I would have continued without it. Yet, translating is now inhibiting me from advancing. I realize I have been trying advance by improving my efficiency of translating. Yet, it is fundamentally flawed and I need to open myself up to a new way. Lately, I have been listening to podcasts for native Speakers. My most effective periods are when I lay down on my bed, close my eyes and get into meditative awareness. My mind slows. I am relaxed and I allow the sounds to travel through my conscious and subconscious minds. When translation occurs, I'm aware of it and let it go - shifting my awareness back to the speaker. Old habits are hard to break, yet for the first time there are periods that I "get it" directly. It is an odd and amazing experience. I have also noticed that I am using some words as "anchors" without translating. Previously, I would grab onto words I know and quickly translate. I may catch "iglesia, Domingo, hijos" and think "church, Sunday, kids" and get the "jist" of what he was saying. Now, I may catch "esposa, dientes, dolor, sacar" and think "esposa, dientes, dolor, sacar" and get the "jist" of what he is saying. This is allowing me to "go with the flow" much better and allows awareness of other sounds/words that I was previously missing, because I was distracted by translating. I think this mindset is key for me to progress further, and I get the sense I am going to make a big breakthrough in Peru. I hope anyway!
I appreciate your thoughts Diego. As you said, direct translations often fail. I would also add that there is a processing step that blocks fluency. Even if Spanish - English translation was 100% aligned, translating back and forth involves requires brain activity and processing time. Fluency involves automatic subconcious understanding. I think a portion of study should be to tranfer vicabularly to subconcious lnowing. For example, using flashcards with images - rather than traditional flascards that translate text. Or, listening to audio and visualizing (or feeling) the story.
I'm very logical and analytical. This is great in the science laboratory yet has hindered me while learning Spanish. I can be hyper focused on rules, structure and inconsistencies. I would often say to my teacher "yea but. . . Why?. . . well what about the usage here?. . . Wouldn't it be more efficient to . . . ? I was giving Spanish a critical analysis as if it was a science manuscript.
I hadn't made much progress after a week of clases in Honduras. I thought "what's going wrong? An immersion program should be the best way to learn. Then, I noticed a Japanese student making rapid progress. How can this be? Shouldn't spanish be harder to learn for a Japanese person? I noticed she was like a sponge. So open, accepting and teachable. Then, I realized it's all about sentiment. Expressing a sentiment. That changed everything for me. I became interested in how can I convey a certain sense or mood. What sentiment is this person trying to convey? My progress in conversation took off.
I leave for Peru tomorrow. My goal is to leave English behind and embrace spanish with open arms in Peru. To enter, participate and become part of another reality which involes a new mide of communication.
Wow, very interesting discussion
About translation, in general in the modern teaching methods, translation is discouraged even from the beginning. Let's take an example, how do you translate "yo soy"? "I am". And "yo estoy"? "I am". This is the "To be or to be" dilemma, so funny for Spanish teachers, I know not so funny for students
But there is more, "I like" is not "Yo gusto" but "Me gusta"
And you cannot literally translate "red" in Spanish, it is not "rojo" or "roja", because gender works different
I mean, from the very first lesson the beginner student has to deal with some important cases which shows that literal translation is bad business. The problem cannot be postponed as in the sky metaphore
In order to reach A2 you have to master a language much beyond from translation, so in my opinion the challenge is buiding up in those skills you already got, towards spontaneus use of the language, more than unlearn mode 1 to learn mode 2, which I think is less natural and effective,
For sure, when you are starting to learn another language you always translate to your mother tongue at some extent, I know it from both my teacher and student sides, but from 0 you have to know translating is a bad way
In my lessons I try to emphazise this, from the first lesson, even for total beginners. Of course my students translate a lot, but they know is bad business in the long term, so when they have the minimum skills they jump to the other side without a great effort
No sé por qué hablamos en ingles si en este hilo todo el mundo tiene buen nivel de español, pero bien :-)
Un saludo
Thanks for your thoughts Phil,. I agree that recognizing pronunciation (sounds) is an important feature of comprehension. Before I traveled to Honduras, I read a lot of Spanish and mispronounced many words in my head while reading. This mispronunciation was reinforced to the point I actually thought it was the correct pronunciation and I could not recognize the correct pronunciation from a native speaker. At one point, I actually told my teacher "that's not how you say that word" and realized how ingrained the incorrect pronunciation was. Form then, I read much less and listened to native speakers much more.
One thing about pronunciation is that there is such a range of accents and rhythms among native speakers. Also, while in Central America, I noticed very different pronunciation between "proper" and "street" Spanish. At times, I felt comfortable talking with my teacher. Later, I would try to chat with a taxi driver and I felt like an absolute beginner. . . I understand some speakers at an A2 level and other speakers at a B2 level.
In addition to recognizing words, there is processing. My goal is to move as many sounds as possible from conscious processing to automatic subconscious understanding. For me, the steps seem to be:
1) I don't recognize the sound. I replay the audio to identify sound.
2) I recognize the sound, but not the meaning. I look up the meaning.
3) I recognize the sound. I translate to English and I know the meaning.
4) I recognize the sound. I think the word in Spanish and know the meaning without translating.
5) I recognize the sound and know the meaning automatically without effort.
The more sounds I can get into level five, the better!
Great post, and I wish you the best of luck with your language learning journey. And of course, have fun!
I learned my first foreign language, English, at school, studying the "inefficient way", with lots of grammar and the such. Although, in my opinion, that style works well in the beginning, and I tend to prefer that. People say it's not necessary to meddle with grammar, but I like the feeling of understanding the language on that level right from the beginning. However, as I was learning my first foreign language, I did not care or think about anything like that. I just did what I was told to do, I was a kid after all, and back then the internet didn't contain all this stuff, nor would it have crossed my mind that I could learn a foreign language any other way than the "school way".
Even though I was always very good at English and languages in general, I didn't have any, and I mean ANY, confidence in speaking. I didn't gain that confidence until I actually started using it in spontaneous situations, namely playing World of Warcraft with people from all over the world. I was like 17 at the time, and I started learning English when I was 9.
My second foreign language is the second official language of my homeland, which I began to study at the age of 13, but have not studied constantly. For a long time I studied it like I studied English, but when I began to feel like I couldn't progress further than B1, I looked into how my English became as good as it is, and decided to simply surround myself with the language and immerse, and now I notice that after a very short time I am starting to gain the same spontaneity as I have with English. It will still take a long time for the languages to be somewhat equal, though.
