Let me add something more: a) A TRUE reflexive verb (in both languages) has the subject and the direct object that are actually THE SAME. B) In Italian you have also verbs that use the reflexive form but don't follow the previous (A) statement. Why do this verb have the reflexive form, then? b1) sometimes for emphasis b2) sometimes the reflexive form is there just to add the meaning 'for my own behalf', or 'for my pleasure', or 'it's best for me' Examples: - me ne vado (It's best for me to go away, It's time for me to go away, I'm tired so I go) verb: andarsene - mi sono mangiato un gran (=grande) piatto di lasagne. (I ate for my pleasure ...., I ate on my behalf ..., I enjoyed eating ...) verb: mangiarsi - mi sono appena lavato, adesso mi vesto true reflexive verbs: lavarsi, vestirsi, reflexive meaning.

/accorgersi/ follows the rammar rules of a reflexive verb, but is not properly reflexive in the meaning. It does not mean /to notice oneself/, it just means /to notice/. Examples: - Mi sono accorto troppo tardi della pioggia. (I noticed the rain) - Mi sono accorto di avere due calzini di colore diverso, ma ormai ero gia` al colloquio di lavoro. Why is this? In Italian we have many pseudo-reflexive verbs, another one (for example) is /mangiarsi/ as in: - si`, mi sono mangiato tutta la torta, per voi se volete c'e` un buon caffe`. The number of verbs that follow reflexive rules in Italian is surely greater than the number of reflexive English verbs.

Päivää Juha! As Andrew says, not all the verbs constructed with personal pronouns are true reflexive verbs. Accorgersi is a so-called PRONOMINAL verb. Pronominal verbs are verbs that do have a reflexive-like form but have no reflexive meaning and don't exist in the non-reflexive form. For a reflexive verb like lavarsi (to wash oneself), you have the basic form lavare (to wash). On the contrary, accorgersi, or pentirsi (to repent) don't have a pronoun-less (you must always say "MI accorgo" and "MI pento", *accorgo and *pento are incorrect). So, "accorgersi" is the infinitive form meaning "to notice". The conjugation is the same as for reflexive verbs: io mi accorgo, tu ti accorgi... It isn't true that "accorgermi" doesn't exist, though. This form with the flected pronoun after the infinitive is used in subordinate clauses when the subject is the same: - "Ho camminato a lungo prima di accorgerMI che avevo sbagliato strada" ("I walked for a long time before noticing that I had taken the wrong way") - "Pensa bene a quello che fai, perché poi potresti pentirtene" ("Think thoroughly about what you are doing, because you may regret it later"; pentirti + ne = pentirTENE, "ne" changes "mi", "ti", "si", "ci", "vi" into "me", "te", "se", "ce", "ve": pentirmene, pentirtene...) Cases like "mangiarsi un bel piatto di pasta" aren't reflexive, either. In the Italian grammar, we call this pronoun an "ethic dative" (dative is a Latin case that shows, i.a., the person to whom you give something, or who takes advantage from something). As Andrew said, they add a meaning of advantage or enjoyment. If you have more questions about Italian grammar, feel free to get in touch with me. Terveisin, Michele

ok thankyou

Hi Juha, MI ACCORGO is the correct form. "Accorgermi" doesn't exist :) Mi accorgo means "I notice", for example when you suddenly notice something or get aware about something. It is a reflexive verb in Italian, but the meaning isn't reflexive. Example: Mi accorgo che è tardi.