By speaking music I mean someone who knows enough about music to be able to talk through with me about the tones and actual pitches that I hear. General advice about how I should make the first tone at the high end of my vocal range for instance doesn't make sense to me when my vocal range never goes up to the C sharp in English that I hear almost all Mandarin-speaking women hitting with the first tone. I can do it... but it's not my natural voice. I can't seem to wrap my mind around the third tone much at all. What I actually hear others doing is not what I am told to do and I am having a horrible time hitting the pitches that seem necessary because they are so foreign to me. I'm hoping that having the language of music in common could help me.
I'm having fundamental problems that I need to talk over in musical terms. In order to do that the teacher has to be very advanced in English of course as well.
If you are such a teacher or you know of such a teacher here... please contact me.
Thank you!
First tone. Yes it does not fit with English and if I say the first tone with a lower pitch, I get picked up on it. So, doing first tone with a lower pitch would make you would sound like a typical English speaking learner. Definitely further away from having a more 'natural' Mandarin. I make a deliberate effort to emphasize the first tone higher when it comes along as I tend to unconsciously fall into using it with a lower pitch. Third tone is depicted as a 'v' but a reverse tick might be more helpful.
About the third tone I totally agree with the comment from Learner SC above. Most teachers explain it as a tone going down and then up, but I think that is only when it is pronounced alone. Usually it doesnt go much up at all, it is almost more like a lower version of the first tone. When pronouncing the third tone followed by another tone, I find that if I go to high at the end of the tone it sounds like a second tone!
My advice is to learn the combinations of third tone with all other tones. Learn 3+1, 3+2, 3+3 and 3+4, one example word for each combination, and then each time you are insecure find the right example. Because the tones sound different when they are put together that alone, and this is particularly true for the third tone. Well, actually I think learning two-syllable combinations is a good idea in general, for getting the right tones.
I hope my thoughts make some sense for you :-)
Hi!
I am not a chinese teacher, just a student :-) But I just thought I would share some of my experiences with the tones..
Regarding the first tone: my impression is that the most important thing is that this tone does not change frequency as you say it. It is, if you exagerate, like singing <em>one</em> tone - without changing the pitch.. I dont think it matters that much if it is a Csharp or another tone, and I think that the actual tone chosen can also depend on the meaning of the sentence and what has been said before etc.
For example, I think the word zhende (really) is pronounced in a higher pitch if it is meant as a question, than if it is meant as an assertion. Also, my impression is that if two first tones are pronounced in a row, then usually the second one is pronounced with a somewhat lower pitch than the first one? (Any native speakers feel free to correct me..)
My point is I think you can choose the tone that feels natural to you and see how that works. The most important thing is how the tones are <em>relative to each other</em>, and not the actual tone. (That is my guess, anyways, but I am just a student as well.)
Girls, don't forget the good [still-not-old] Wiki.
"Third tone, low or dipping tone, descends from mid-low to low; between other tones it may simply be low. This tone is often demonstrated as having a rise in pitch after the low fall; however, when a third-tone syllable is not said in isolation, this rise is normally heard only if it appears at the end of a sentence or before a pause, and then usually only on stressed monosyllables.[Duanmu (2000), p. 222.] The third tone without the rise is sometimes called half third tone. Third tone syllables that include the rise are significantly longer than other syllables. For further variation in syllables carrying this tone, see Third tone sandhi, below. Unlike the other tones, third tone is pronounced with breathiness or murmur.[Duanmu (2000), p. 213.]
....
Tone sandhi
Pronunciation also varies with context according to the rules of tone sandhi. Some such changes have been noted above in the descriptions of the individual tones; however, the most prominent phenomena of this kind relate to consecutive sequences of third-tone syllables. There are also a few common words that have variable tone."
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese_phonology">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese_phonology</a>;
Though, I believe, books (or their fragments on books.google) have more to say about tone sandhi in Chinese. And on tones themselves as well. It doesn't mean that a good teacher isn't must, nor that a teacher with musical background wouldn't be helpful:) Neither it resolves the first-tone pitch question:( Sometimes I wonder what do Chinese basses sound like.
Dorothy, Do you have perfect pitch? If so, I could probably help you. I teach ear training, aural skills, etc.
When you talk in English, what pitch do you tend to center on? What is your comfortable speaking range in a calm, normal setting? i.e. c#4-e4
