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James
confusion with de and shi de
Exercise 2
Combine the two sentences in each group to make them into one sentence by using de:
(a) Linda shi da xuesheng. Linda xue Zhongwen.
(a) Linda shi xue Zhongwen de da xuesheng.
The word de links the verbal phrase with the noun.
So is the verbal phrase xue Zhongwen and the noun is da xuesheng? If this is the case what is the shi for in the sentance?
Shi...de
This construction has many usages. Let us look at two of them here. First, it is used in interrogative sentences which ask about the time, place or manner of an action that hapened in the past. The word shi is placed before the phrase that is being emphasized and de comes either at the end of the sentence or after the verb.
So in this instance sentance (a) Linda shi xue Zhongwen de da xuesheng. Is xue Zhongwen being emphasised by shi? But Zhongwen isn't a verb is it? and de doen't come at the end of the sentance?
Second, the construction is used in positive sentances that emphasize the time or manner of a past action.
Or is it simply that shi de is used in the second instance and the sentance (a) Linda shi xue Zhongwen de da xuesheng. emphasizes the time and manner of a past action i.e Linda learned Chinese at university.
This is so confusing please help.
11 Thg 11 2009 12:18
Câu trả lời · 13
我也是怕发帖者更迷惑,所以才用汉语三。
@joseph
现代汉语中也有“形容词作谓语”这种句型。说明并非只有古汉语才有这种现象。
我只是举的古诗的例子,并非意为现代汉语就不使用。
@嗯,楼上的老师曾经研究出什么结论么?能否分享一下?
14 tháng 11 năm 2009
关于“的”的省略问题,是我们中国人感觉不是问题而外国学生常问的问题。我们曾经寻找过答案,有些收获,但还是很复杂,难于把握,怎样用于教学中还是让人头疼的。我们的讨论可能让发贴者越来越糊涂,因为越扯越远了。哈哈。
12 tháng 11 năm 2009
To Victor:
I'm glad to know that you noticed my answer. But, there is some thing I'd like you to know. What I said here is trying to make a Chinese learner understand the language of Chinese based on English--their native language. The example you took about 绿(lv) seems an exception from general rules. Because it was used as verb. But did you notice that it was from ancient poetry? It's about ancient literature, which is rather different from how we're using Chinese in the 21st century. So, I don't think that's what elementary and intermediate learners looking for. And it is not advisable to let them know ancient things too soon, although it sounds nice. It can well be used as something with which poeple can appreciate the historic Chinese language, but not as the direct source they learn Chinese from, at least not at present.
So, it's not just about knowledge, it's also about the methods of teaching :)
12 tháng 11 năm 2009
About other usages of ‘de’, a rather common one is about ‘ownership’, I think. It’s the same as ’s in English.
e.g. Roy’s father: Roy de baba.
Roy’s father has a green car.
Roy de1 baba you yiliang lvse de2 qiche.
See, ‘de’ appears twice in one sentence with totally different meanings. It is already a good Chinese expression per se, but if you want it to be more concise, you may delete the de2, which goes: Roy de baba you yiliang lvse qiche.
I guess everybody now has a much clearer idea about ‘de’ now, right? ‘de’ is said to be the most commonly used Chinese word, so it has millions of possibilities. Take it easy, my friends. When meeting new problems, you know where to find me :)
12 tháng 11 năm 2009
joseph的说法不太对,关于‘的’的省略问题。
并不是所有作为结构助词的‘的’都必须要写出来。
我曾经看过一篇文章,认为现代汉语中过多的“的”是受翻译英文形容词时候“xx的”形式的影响。但实际上很多“的”都是可以省略的。
我觉得,独立的看汉语词汇,是没有词性的。只有放在句子里面的特定位置,才有。
加“的”就是为了确定一个词的词性。
因为有的时候省略“的”,会让两个词语或成分之间的关系变模糊,此时就必须要用。
如果不加“的”,两个词语或成分之间的关系仍然很明确,就不需要结构助词“的”。
但是,有时即使形容词,如果不加“的”,也会让人产生“使动”的感觉,就好像“春风又绿江南岸”的“绿”字一样。
以上,觉得不确定,所以用中文讨论下
12 tháng 11 năm 2009
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James
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Tiếng Trung Quốc (Quan thoại), Tiếng Anh
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